Curse

MithranArkanere · Apr 07, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Not the same.

Show us threads that are thousands of posts long with 70% voting in favor for 7 heroes.

YES. THE SAME.

If design is the very reason, then player decision has nothing to do here.

Is not something that can change. Is something that will not. Thy are making GW2 because some things cannot be done.

Allowing a few players take economic advantage for doing something not supported that can be done with some professions over those that just play normally the way the game was designed to be played is something that will never happen. /breath

When they added HM they replaced the anti-farm code with lootscalling. That was a change in design due to a change in the game.

Since the addition of LS there has been absolutely no change that would allow to remove LS without bringing up the difference between farmers and not farmers. And even with the new RMT policies is not completely possible to remove all bots and keep track of all the gold forcibly inserted into into the game.

It's starting to sound like a joke, you know. Like most characters seen in Idiocracy.

Fay Vert · Apr 07, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Many people, and ANet claim that they listen to players feedback and respond to it.

Never say never.

reetkever · Apr 07, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

No.

Yes. When doing Prophecies storyline only, it's near impossible to get the cash for the droks armour if you buy new armour at every outpost (Like you SHOULD do as a Casual Player, else you get overrun by the stronger monsters in new areas).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Lion's Arch says hi.

What does LA have to do with anything I said?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

In exchange for loot scaling, people got hard mode. Or more accurately, loot scaling was implemented because of hard mode.

What does HM have to do with the LS? If the LS gets removed in HM, no more Tomes, Golds or scrolls would drop there, only non-max damage white weapons. HM would be the same as NM, but then with a bit more exemption-list items.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

As far as inflation goes, prices didn't steadily drop since the beginning of Guild Wars. Factions and its changes was the first time that prices went down dramatically, and it wasn't a constant drop since then.

If you payed better attention, you would've seen that prices have been dropping since the beginning of Guild Wars, and only went/stayed up if the drop rate for that item has been nerfed in any way, or if the item stayed very popular. Every time a farm run gets nerfed, the price of that item goes up. Just look at Loot Scaling - It drove prices up of items to the point where no1 could buy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

At any rate, inflation is less of an issue than why solo farmers should get more money. Maybe I'm biased, but giving solo farmers more money isn't the same as giving everyone more money.

In this situation, however, NO1 is getting money. Before the LS, people farmed. It was a fun thing to do, made outposts lively, it was easy and relaxing, and a nice way to earn cash. I never heard ANYONE complaining about the state of the economy back then, except for the crazily overpriced items like Crystalline Swords, Sup Absorption etc. Why? Because EVERYTHING was obtainable by EVERYONE. Sure, it didn't take just a day, but anyone that wasn't terribly lazy could've become rich back then.

Now, only the Hardcore farmers become rich, and the casual players have no choice but to only play the storyline and stay poor. The fact that YOU don't want casual farmers to become rich proves that I shouldn't take your arguments too seriously. You have no reason to care what other people have or don't have, except if you're an elitist who doesn't want others to have fun.

Creeping Carl · Apr 07, 2008, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

You just can't do it can you?

You can't hold up a side of a debate without resorting to insults, why is this? Do you have a problem?

That's right. I was retorting to an insult from your side. So yeah, maybe my problem is that I can't let people insult me without reprisal.

But sure, focus on my retorts instead. I didnt see you responding to any of my posts earlier when I explained why LS is a good system until I started fighting back. Funny how that is.

Messy · Apr 07, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

whoaaaaa way too many pages to read..... but in the end, maybe ANET will listen

reetkever · Apr 07, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Allowing a few players take economic advantage for doing something not supported that can be done with some professions over those that just play normally the way the game was designed to be played is something that will never happen. /breath

You mean like DoA farming, UW/FoW runs, Raptor farming, Glacial Stones runs- all the other farm runs of these days?

Uhu, better check out the current situation of the game. It's funny that you said it this way, cause casual farming IS something that can be done by ANY profession, by ANY casual player, at ANY time, while all farm-runs of nowadays fullfill your exact description.

Again, farming IS supported by A-Net. If Guild Wars didn't support farming, they'd remove the drop system and just give everyone a steady bonus after doing certain events. That way everyone gets the same and no farming is needed. There are countless of simple things A-Net could've done to prevent solo-farming, yet they didn't. A-Net might not totally support Solo-Farming, but they're not against it, either.

Fay Vert · Apr 07, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

That's right. I was retorting to an insult from your side. So yeah, maybe my problem is that I can't let people insult me without reprisal.

But sure, focus on my retorts instead. I didnt see you responding to any of my posts earlier when I explained why LS is a good system until I started fighting back. Funny how that is.

Oh, my bad, let me read your post again in light of this. If I recall, the post you responded to asked if you had played before the loot nerf (not really an insult was it?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

Yes, I've played way before LS. My first exposure to GW was in the betas.

Ok. Maybe not ALL are crying about it. Sorry if you were not. But plenty are. But even though you're the majority (at least on the forums) it still doesnt mean you're right or know what's right for the game.

Nope. My opinion isnt the only one that matters. I'm just adding my teeny tiny voice despite the roar of the anti-LS mob. I wanted ANET to see that not everyone is unaware (since the word ignorant offends you so much) of what removing LS would do.

And obviously ignorance is not bliss since you anti-LS people are obviously not in bliss.

Nope, sorry, I can't see the point you are making that you think I should respond to. Can you spell it out again so I can respond, all I can see is your insulting. Please try without the insults this time, it might help me to spot your point.

ogre_jd · Apr 07, 2008, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Yes. When doing Prophecies storyline only, it's near impossible to get the cash for the droks armour if you buy new armour at every outpost (Like you SHOULD do as a Casual Player, else you get overrun by the stronger monsters in new areas).

Starter -> Pre-Searing Collectors -> Post-Searing Ascalon armorer (dude on the right) -> (can't remember anything in Northern Shiverpeaks or Kryta) -> Maguuma Collectors -> Desert Collectors (for max) is how I progressed.

Didn't really care for the looks of Platemail, Tyrian or Wyvern, so I didn't bother upgrading right away - I didn't spot the second armorer for a few days, but I had more than enough money to afford the armor (5k) and the leather squares ( another 5k) I needed (already had the iron and steel) right away.

Hardly difficult to get the money by that point. Maybe if you get yourself run through the Desert and so aren't poking around to find the Missions and therefore not getting stuff to merch... (and it's quite worthwhile to do so, I've found) Got distracted by EotN, so haven't progressed much further in Proph, but with 47p in the bank, I'll be getting Asuran armor as soon as I hit r5 (which I'm currently liking better than the 15k's I've seen for Warriors),

shru · Apr 07, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Loot scaling atm is not a bot restriction anymore. If you look at the new farms that have arisen since the day it was implemented, you'd understand there's no going back without a serious redesign of several farms.
Raptors would be a perfect example of this. In 30-60seconds, you can kill 30+ enemies in HM (compared to the old 1-3min troll farm that got 10-20 enemies). If lootscaling were to be removed, a farm like that would cause chaotic inflation. It's already one of the most popular farmings runs in the game right now, and people aren't limiting their farming just to event weekends. If people were to get non lootscaled drops doing this run, they could easily fill their invintory with 50-100g whites amongst the other drops in several runs (I would typically get 3-5 items in an average run, this number would be as much as eight times greater). This would of course atract even more farmers back to mass aggro runs and worsen the problem even more. The gap between the casual and hardcore gamer would once again be divided as prices on most everything would undoubtedly skyrocket.

As much as we would all love to see lootscaling removed, it's just not practical with the newer farms that have opened up. Even if bots were completely shut out from the game, it would still wreck havock on an already fragile economy.

Creeping Carl · Apr 07, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Oh, my bad, let me read your post again in light of this. If I recall, the post you responded to asked if you had played before the loot nerf (not really an insult was it?)

Maybe you need glasses since you missed the part where he/she said "ignorance is bliss", which I responded to obviously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Nope, sorry, I can't see the point you are making that you think I should respond to. Can you spell it out again so I can respond, all I can see is your insulting. Please try without the insults this time, it might help me to spot your point.

Which part of "my prior posts" do you not understand? It doesnt just mean only one previous post. But this is just silly. You're again, focusing on me rather than the issue itself. But I guess it's easy to shoot the messenger if you don't like the message. LS IS HERE TO STAY, whether you like it or not.

Fay Vert · Apr 08, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

Which part of "my prior posts" do you not understand? It doesnt just mean only one previous post. But this is just silly. You're again, focusing on me rather than the issue itself. But I guess it's easy to shoot the messenger if you don't like the message. LS IS HERE TO STAY, whether you like it or not.

Its just so hard to figure out what is a point, what is a rant, what is flat wrong and what is an insult in your posts. If you would like to make your points more rationally so that we can see what they are then please go ahead.

Saying LS is here to stay isn't a point, and it may even not be correct, if you are so sure of that, why are you even bothering here? I am here because I believe it can change.

Creeping Carl · Apr 08, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Its just so hard to figure out what is a point, what is a rant, what is flat wrong and what is an insult in your posts. If you would like to make your points more rationally so that we can see what they are then please go ahead.

Saying LS is here to stay isn't a point, and it may even not be correct, if you are so sure of that, why are you even bothering here? I am here because I believe it can change.

And if my posts are so pointless as you claim, why do you keep responding? And stating that LS is here to stay is indeed a point, there's plenty of indication that it won't change, one being that ANET has not commented at all on it and pretty much ignoring it. It's just that it's a point that you don't agree with.

Fay Vert · Apr 08, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

THAT'S your point?

OMG lol

ROFL

Savio · Apr 08, 2008, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Yes. When doing Prophecies storyline only, it's near impossible to get the cash for the droks armour if you buy new armour at every outpost (Like you SHOULD do as a Casual Player, else you get overrun by the stronger monsters in new areas).

Crap, so when I made it through Prophecies without buying every armor I did it wrong. My bad.

Quote:

What does LA have to do with anything I said?

You claimed farming was the only way to make money. Lion's Arch is one of those areas where people magically make money without solely farming.

Quote:

What does HM have to do with the LS?

They were implemented in the same update; loot scaling was not the only update that day. One change offers better drops, the other reduces drops. Hey, there might be a relationship between the two. I'll let you know how they're related as soon as I figure out what 2 + 2 equals.

Creeping Carl · Apr 08, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

THAT'S your point?

OMG lol

ROFL

As opposed to a "OMG ROFL lol" post having a better point?

The calmer cooler heads have tried to explain why LS is needed and why it's better for the average player but it's fallen on deaf ears. So hey, pointing out that the there's a very low possibility that ANET is even considering taking LS out or even acknowledging the possibility seemed like an easier option to explain to the mob. I guess not.

Whisper Evenstar · Apr 08, 2008, 01:01 AM // 01:01

No - Pls don't remove lootscaling Anet. Remove the things that are broken, such as Ursan and consumables. Then you will have an interesting game again...

cebalrai · Apr 08, 2008, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nude Nira

Umm, we don't ignore your arguments, however, 75% of the time, insults/you are ignorant makes up most of the post, soo when we see you flame us, we have to defend our opinion, thus creating the flame circle going on here. And like I said in my last post, if you play Guild Wars, which most people do, they encounter the effects of loot scaling, which makes your "you are so ignorant" posts stupid because, they are somewhat educated on the issue.

MithranArkanere: you are really the only pro-LS (minus a few others) here that actually knows how to debate without adding ignorant/you're uninformed in your post.

Sure you do. You ignore points right and left. Like this one, that you refuse to address, over and over:

" You guys still ignore points like these too:

1) Zones with an 8 character limit were intended for a large party. It's poor game design to allow them to be cleared with one. Anet has a right to make sure their original vision is adhered to - or at least limit the incentive to work around their vision. They chose to continue to allow some solo play while making it less of an exploit.

2) People are still making plenty of money.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10173135

See this thread? People are doing just fine. AFAIK, nobody on the LS-removal side of the debate has addressed this point. Why?"

cebalrai · Apr 08, 2008, 01:51 AM // 01:51

I prefer playing in groups of 8.

What I want to know is why aren't people proposing that my playing style be rewarded? What makes you anti-LS people so damn special? Why should your playing style get INSANE rewards while mine keeps me poor? You guys sound like supreme elitists. If you want more cash flow in the game, fine. But don't link it to YOUR playing style while shafting (relatively speaking) all the people who play as the designers intended.

Nobody ever seems to want to address this point.

angmar_nite · Apr 08, 2008, 02:01 AM // 02:01

designers didnt intend it that way though. and besides, we cant go through the whole game by ourselves. farming isn't a playstyle.

cebalrai · Apr 08, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

designers didnt intend it that way though. and besides, we cant go through the whole game by ourselves. farming isn't a playstyle.

Farming is a play sytle though. Anet even went as far as to recognize it as such, when they took steps to limit it.